> Interviews

Nihonbara Diary
Kurobe Shunsuke (Director)

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Making the film while working on the protagonist’s farm

Shoji Tsutomu (ST): For starters, what was the reason for wanting to meet with the protagonist of this film, Mr. Naito Hideyuki ?

Kurobe Shunsuke (KS): An acquaintance of mine had mentioned to me from time to time about this man who had gotten accepted to the Department of Medicine in Okayama University but, instead of becoming a doctor, moved to the north of Okayama Prefecture to a town called Nagi so he could fight the Japan Self-Defense Force (SDF) and he ended up raising cattle there. This person was, of course, Mr. Naito Hideyuk.

I wondered about what kind of person he was, so first I wrote him a letter. Since he never replied I decided to meet him directly at his farm, which was about a two-and-a-half-hour drive from Okayama City. When I got there, he came out to meet me and told me, simply, “I read your letter, sorry you came all this way.” Right away he asked if I wanted to see what it was like in the military training grounds. When he brought me there I saw that he had been raising things like sweet potatoes and preparing grass for the cattle in there. We would frequently drive past some SDF vehicles while riding around on Mr. Naito’s small truck. I never imagined that that outsiders were allowed to be in the military training area.

In the end, we stayed within the grounds for about three hours and after talking for some time about the military training area, Mr. Naito asked me, “You came all this way, would you like to help take care of the cattle?” and I ended up helping to care for the cattle for about two months.

After that, I started to develop a personal relationship with each of Mr. Naito’s family members: his wife, Sanae, his son Yo, who was in charge of the film’s narration, and his eldest son Daichi.

Initially Yo would only speak to me from the entrance way of the house, but one day he asked me if I would like to come inside. I think he was curious that someone his age had come to the farm. He would ask things like “What is your purpose from coming here” or “What’s your favorite food” and during our conversations, one day, he told me it was okay for me to stay there. Yo’s room was very clean. It had taken me about two months to reach a point where they would let me stay over at their home. Sometime after that, I politely asked “Would it be okay if I filmed some things in your everyday life?” and that’s how filming began.

ST: “Anti-Base Struggle” is mentioned in the film’s pamphlet but after actually seeing the film, I felt that the way you depicted this kind of anti-base struggle was very refreshing. I was surprised that all this time there were common grounds existing inside of the area used for the military base.

KS: Since raising livestock and rice farming are the main activities in the common grounds, water is drawn from the training area and used to make rice paddies. When I was taken to the water source, I quickly realized that this training area was not only for the Self-Defense Forces, but also an area sustaining the lives of the people living there. When I think of a struggle, I have an image of people shouting “protect the Constitution!” or holding a rally . . . but here I saw nothing like that, which was very interesting to me.

Also, personally, I took a liking to taking care of the cattle. I felt that I wanted the film to have both of these angles and decided to search for what would be the overall theme of the film as I set out on my filmmaking journey. The schedule for an entire year on a farm is actually about the same as that of a person. Although their gestation time is different, the cycle of the cattle’s life is very similar to that of a human. This is why I set out with the idea to make a film that spanned about a year’s time.

ST: I thought the film really excelled in seamlessly weaving in some humorous scenes throughout. Did editing like that occur naturally?

KS: Rather than deciding on what exactly I wanted to film and then going out to film it, I took the approach of filming during my break times while working on the farm. Because of this, there aren’t really many proper interviews. After packing the silo, I would bring what I had, drop it off, and then give feed to the animals. Mr. Naito would tell me what to do next. Sometimes I would go over to the fields to help harvest rice if someone there needed me. Doing all kinds of jobs here and there, naturally, I would get tired out and so would Mr. Naito. So both of us would chat in this very informal way while we were both taking a breather after all this work.

Cowsheds are low so since I am a bit tall I would end up hitting my head if I didn’t squat down. There is a separate path for people like us to work and a separate path for the cattle to use, but the barns are getting old and the cows run around quite a bit, despite being crammed into this small space too. And when they would run around, I was the only one who could go after them. It was quite scary, because if you play tug of war with a cow you will always lose so I had to be extra careful.

ST: I was thinking that maybe there are many people who are engaged in activities like Mr. Naito but end up isolated in the community and considered heretics.

KS: I think the area depicted in the film is very conservative in terms of politics. In rural Japan, there was a strong sense that children would stay on and take over caring for their household’s rice paddies and protect their family, but nowadays there are no family heirs. Even amid such conditions, Mr. Naito has been running his farm even though he is over seventy years old and despite the fact that he was adopted into his wife’s family. There used to be fifteen households in the village where Mr. Naito lives, but there are only two households now. He has continued his operations by planting his feet firmly on the ground which is why I think he is well respected in the community. People often come to him for advice, and decisions are often made after much discussion, with even Mr. Naito having to consult with someone at such times. Seeing how he had that kind of relationship with others in the community gave me the impression that he was a suitable leader for the village and is respected regardless of his beliefs.

The State of the common grounds

ST: Regarding the rights to the common grounds, is it unusual in Japan to find a case like Nihonbara, where there is a common ground, or rather common farmland, in the training area of the Self Defense Forces?

KS: There are some similar cases. The government does not want to recognize this “common ground” in the first place, so for Mr. Naito and the people who live there, the term is what the land should be called from their point of view. It’s a matter of semantics. The training grounds themselves are state-owned, but when they were acquired, the rights especially the living rights of the people who have lived on that land all their lives were so strong that both the old Japanese Army and later the SDF were forced to recognize the common grounds, and that is the way it is now.

ST: That’s quite interesting.

KS: I think it is rare to find such a place like this, one with such an established way of life. There is a shrine inside the training area. The SDF’s opinion is that they would like the shrine to be moved outside. But for local people, a shrine is like a symbol, and they would always enter the grounds when they visit the shrine, even to take newborns for their first shrine visit. I think it is rare that people continue to enter the common ground to visit the shrine in their daily life and even on the occasion of important milestones in their lives.

ST: When you enter the training grounds is there a security surveillance system? Something set up along the fence area?

KS: There are surveillance cameras set up on the fence. But there are many gates, and the training grounds are very large, so they are set up in multiple places. The gate in the movie is the one closest to Mr. Naito’s house and he used it often. I think some areas along the fence may not have any.

ST: So long as you live in the area, anyone could just go in?

KS: You can enter with a permit. This has only been the case for the past few years. The SDF issues a permit every year, and you are given a key. Originally, there was no such key, but now it is recognized that "the land is managed by the SDF.” Originally, there was no such key, but now it is recognized that “the land is managed by the SDF,” although it is not impossible to enter without the SDF’s permission. However, when the U.S. military comes to Japan for joint exercises, how should I put it, the entire attitude changes there. When it comes to the U.S. military training, the SDF only receive a kind of one-sided notification, a paper vaguely stating when the training will begin and how many people will go. The local government does not know what exactly will take place. Sometimes they say they will release some information to the press, but it feels like a case of extraterritorial jurisdiction. I think that is why the residents feel uneasy about the U.S. military. The problem of PFAS (perfluorinated organic compounds) is now being raised at various bases, but what I am most concerned about at Nihonbara is that if the water in the mountains there is contaminated, the rice in Nagi, the drinking water for cattle, water for daily use, etc., will all be greatly affected. However, I think it will be very difficult to find out how to investigate this. As for local governments, they may receive subsidies due to the presence of the SDF on their land. Even if we can conduct a survey on the SDF, I don’t think there will probably be a mechanism in the ordinance to establish what to do or how to respond in the case of independent training by the U.S. military.

ST: Did you have time to film an independent U.S. military training exercise?

KB: I wanted to take footage of an independent training exercise if I could but wasn’t able to because of COVID-19. The protests opposing the base were not possible. At that time, everyone had been staying home so any idea about getting together for a demonstration or any kind of protest had come to a complete halt. I think we sent out protest letters on paper, but we didn’t actually protest anything. I personally feel that in a similar way, when something disappears, from then on, people will eventually stop monitoring it no matter how faintly its presence or how long it continued to exist to that point. These training exercises will become a permanent activity because, unless there is a major incident, when something like that becomes normalized then any feelings of opposition towards such things disappears.

Food, agriculture, and human relations

ST: Another major pillar of the work is the relationship between food and agriculture. First of all, why couldn’t the special pasteurized “Mountain Milk,” continue?

KS: There was no one to succeed the business. The owner of “Mountain Milk” actually asked me to take over the business, but with their production method it wasn’t profitable unless you paid 400 yen for each bottle of milk. I don’t know about big companies like Snow Brand, but dairy farming is now not worth it, or rather, it’s a business that is always in the red. Pasteurized milk is good for your health, but it takes a lot of time and effort to pasteurize it at a natural temperature. If you think about it, human babies do not pasteurize their mother’s milk either, right? You need to pay a certain amount of money for something that requires such time and effort, and such a system is not yet in place.

ST: The scene where Mr. Naito sprinkles cow manure on his fields as part of his organic farming methods was a first for me. In addition to pasteurized milk, scenes like this showcase the former richness of agricultural methods and allow the film to help us think about agriculture in various ways.

KS: It is true that a lot of people were opposed to that method. The smell is terrible, and the yield is not very high for what you do, and I honestly don’t know how beneficial it is for the soil. That land belongs to an ex-SDF member who does organic farming and people who do organic farming are willing to try all kinds of things. When really enthusiastic people try their hand at it, they call on Mr. Naito, who is a livestock farmer. I personally think it is wonderful that such a relationship, or rather, a partnership between agriculture and livestock, has been established.

ST: I felt that everyone who appeared in the film was very charming and open-minded.

KS: Everyone there took really good care of me. They treated me like I was Mr. Naito’s son, like someone who was involved in the same farming business rather than just someone with a camera. Wherever I went, I felt like I was part of their family, and I was grateful that they allowed me to stay there with them.

Mr. Naito’s struggle in Nihonbara was a struggle from within his everyday life. He did not harbor such a rebellious attitude only when he protested because his actions were connected to his entire life. I did not feel that he acted differently when he participated in demonstrations. The issue of agriculture, too, is a movement supported by people that is strongly rooted in their everyday life, so I personally did not feel any discomfort with it.

ST: The scene where the eldest son, Daiichi, confronts the Self-Defense Forces personnel also left a tremendous impression on me.

KS: Even the SDF members who usually don’t say anything would talk with Daiichi. Most protests end after some chants and calls and the handing over of a piece of paper with our demands, but in that scene, Daiichi did all the talking. I think it was probably because of the presence of the camera. The SDF members looked dejected, and it might sound strange to say but I felt sorry for them. Still, I didn’t expect Daiichi to speak in that way but I felt that he was speaking to them as fellow human beings.

ST: Why did you choose the younger son, Yo, who has a disability, to narrate the film? Were there any conflicts or objections when you brought him on for the role? Did everything go smoothly?

KS: To be honest, I was concerned about whether he would be able to do the narration. People close to him thought that his father’s protest activities had driven him to become a recluse, and I was thinking of using his side of the story in the film. Yo also said that he did not want to cause his father pain, so I had the idea of asking him to be the narrator from a rather early stage of filming. However, due to his disability, it was difficult for him to concentrate on reading the long sections text. We would go through the lines together and by doing this we were able to overcome this obstacle. I think he enjoyed his role very much, and when we screened the film in Okayama, Yo came to speak in front of the audience on stage and had no problems at all. This also led him to getting a hold of a mobile phone, and now he uses the messaging service LINE every day.

ST: How has everyone there been doing since shooting ended?

KS: I mentioned it a little in the film through the subtitles, but filming ended with the onset of COVID-19 and then in 2021 Mr. Naito came down with leukemia. After that, Daiichi, the eldest son, returned home and took care of the cows pretty much by himself. Daiichi held out and continued like this for a year, and although he stopped dairy farming, he still continues to breed, birth, and raise cows until this day. I believe that Daiichi knows the cycle of cows very well and has learned when to breed and when not to breed. He has become a well-learned cowherd. I only filmed one birth, but before that, I had a stillbirth which really took a toll on me, mentally. If a cow that I had raised for a year died it would amount to a loss of millions yen, so in the world of cattle raising losing one in this way is unacceptable. But to be honest, I think it is very difficult for family-style farms, and some of the farms that raise many cows are going bankrupt so I think the future of livestock farming does not look so bright.

Trying to make just a single film

ST: Nihonbara Diary is your first film as a director. Is there anything new or any new themes you would like to tackle in future works?

KS: I originally studied film at film school, but I knew I was not suited for a career in film. I met many of my classmates and learned a very general style of filmmaking, but I felt that it was difficult for me to put forward a plan. I am not good at making films with a fixed theme, and this film has many. If I were asked to make a film on a single theme such as “What is the Self-Defense Forces?” for example, I don’t think I could. If asked to make a film about “What was the Student Movement like?” I just couldn’t. If someone asked me to submit a proposal and then asked how I would go about filming what I proposed, I would probably just pass out.

This time, Mr. Naito, through his relationship with me, was able to bring out various elements in the film, such as his son, who also has a disability but gets along with me and is in charge of the narration. In the future, too, rather than deciding what to film, I want to film based on how I communicate with someone, to put it simply. For example, if I were a rancher, I would take care of the cows and build a relationship with them, and then they would recognize me as someone who could keep up with and be with them. In this way, I’d like to first build a relationship with someone who I am interested in, and then let the camera roll naturally and film and speak with them in a natural way. This method probably suits my style of filmmaking the best.

But on the other hand, if you are making a movie, you also have to be a human being, and in that sense, I would like to learn things from Mr. Naito. For example, Mr. Naito does not usually speak loudly about Article 9 of the Constitution, but when it is time for him to give a lecture, he can speak clearly about it. He has a heart, but he is also open-minded. I admire that kind of humility and respect it as a way of life. I strive to be like that one day, and I hope that by making movies I can also grow as a person.

ST: It’s been about a year since the film was released in theaters. How do you feel about the response to the film so far?

KS: I thought it might be hard for audiences to find something they could cling on to because the film has plenty of elements. For starters, no one knows about the “Nihonbara,” the place. Not even how to read the characters for it. Adding to that, the film is about a kind of conflict with the Self-Defense Forces but there aren’t any scenes of that conflict, so it’s quite difficult for me to explain the film to others. The problems centered on Henoko in Okinawa, for example, are more straightforward to explain, but, at the moment, the base in Nihonbara isn’t exactly a pressing issue.

ST: How do you feel about the fact that the film was screened at YIDFF?

KS: This opportunity was all thanks to my wife, the producer. She knew that I was away from home working on something but she had no idea what that was. A year later, I had edited the film myself and showed it to my wife. She thought it was interesting, and from then on, she was on board as producer and mentioned how she wanted to make sure we marketed the film properly. We consulted with the distributor, Tofoo Films, who encourage us to speak with a professional to have the editing done properly. They introduced us to Mr. Hata Takeshi , who did the editing. This was how I was able to finish the film. Being selected for this year’s Japan Program was sort of out of the blue and a little surprising . . .  Even though Mr. Naito isn’t really interested in cinema, he seemed to have a lot of thoughts on Yamagata since this place is home to Yonezawa cattle and he was glad to hear about the screening. He asked me if dairy farmers might go see the film . . . he might have thought that YIDFF is a film festival that centered on cows. For me, too, being accepted to the program was like a dream.

Compiled by Shoji Tsutomu
Translated by Christopher Cabrera

Photography: Hosokawa Yoshiharu / Video: Kato Takanobu / 2023-10-09